Give the Noise a Beat! Machina #2 is here!

   Devyn Saturnus of Esomoprhic records rematerializes this friday 6/16 with his curated  Machina night “a multi-sensory night of esotronic//dungeon acid//industrial tech//modular synth and evilutionary visuals”.  This is the second one that he has curated and involves musicians from his own label as well as musicians from the bay-area based electronic collectives Katabatik and 5lowershop. Devyn tells us about the featured artists, his musings on our Oakland scene and remembering Obscura Machina. Listen to this teaser track while you read!

********* In this interview the events of Dec. 2 2016 that took place in Oakland are mentioned. I am still very sensitive to this subject and wanted to let you know what to expect  before reading*******

So Machina #2 is underway! Tell me more about musicalfungus as he is on your label Esomorphic records.  

I met Chris (musicalfungus) in passing at “that one thing in the desert”, many a past life ago. At the time, all I really knew of him was his affiliations with certain crews in the west coast bass culture. Essentially I found through social media he started collecting and building modular synths, which always piques my interest, and its been fun watching him explore these machines, getting to a point where he was ready to explore this in an album. I forget the initial communication we made (the sea of faces on social media can do that..) but he shot me what is now DEMON CORE. Instantly I fell in love, threw it up on Esomorphic Records and booked him a show. You can also consider this Machina as MFungus’ cassette debut show. Be sure to pick it up! He’s from Santa Cruz, so catch him while he’s in town!  I’m confident his modular magickal conjurings will be quite the treat, improvised through real circuits and currents, experienced and released into the aether, audio spore frequencies settling into the fertile dirt of our senses .

You've also got some guys from 5lowershop and Katabatik that night as well.

Yes, not to be missed is Hakuin, the pseudonym from Justin Rafferty from 5lowershop who will be starting the night off with his signature brand of psychedelic hardcore IDM, an alchemy of styles and aesthetics revealing machine whispers and warnings from beyond.. He is an absolute genius and I’m very excited to see what he has in store for us. 

Hakuin

And if this doesn’t already sound like the show of the summer, we have Scarford. It felt like a long shot asking a Veteran from Katabatik to perform at this very new event, but the timing was apparently perfect for Scott Arford to deliver unto us a new beast, Scarford. Recently released is an EP under the newly formed Katabatik record label. "Who You Are" is a funky, dark, and fresh approach to EBM and industrial. He's definitely standing out from a style that is easy to rely on "what has been done". It's obvious that Scarford is a beast that only Scott can tame with hard beats, stabbing bass lines in a sinister mid tempo range that personally grips my rib cage and shakes me....I can't wait to hear it on the system at The Night Light and if anyone had an second thoughts on attending Machina the chance to see this new entity should change your mind.

Scarford

I love the "dark disco" notes that Scarford is doing, plus I haven't seen any 5lowershop sets in awhile so this should be pretty interesting. 

Yes, quite the variety show. ((((((******TRIGGER WARNING********)))))) It goes without saying that our rather tight-knit community took a blow half a year ago and i’m doing my best to fill in the void we now face from the comrades we lost. Im extremely inspired by my band mate and good friend Micah Danemeyer. He pretty much paved the way as I worked with him under his label Discarded and as a semi-regular performer at his monthly Obscura Machina shows, where, in case you were wondering, is a direct nod and tribute to his energy before us, not stealing, but reminding us who brought our “scenes” together under his mutant vision.  My intention is to continue the platform for all of us weirdos to get our stuff out there and have it be heard, guided as a new label and collective entity. The unofficial “theme” of Esomorphic is “””bringing the underground... above ground”””, considering our DIY spaces are all at risk right now. Our options from my observations are very small house shows or trying to convince venues that people will actually come to these shows to subject themselves to such challenging outsider electronics. I have to thank Jason Kick over at The Night Light for his continued support and understanding and for giving us weekend dates. I knew that Micah had been booking and promoting shows for years and it took him so long for him to finally break even. I have to thank him for his tireless effort doing the good work for all of us, a gift that we should never take for granted. He set the stage for us to pick it up and to keep the legacy and tradition alive.

That was everything I would have wanted to have said about this situation, and you worded it so eloquently. It's still hard for me to write the right words about all that has happened. I'm so happy that this is still going on. It really carries an essence of him. 

   Everything everywhere is different now as far as what our culture is like. There is a time before the event in question and there is the time afterwards. Everything was different before and now its different after it. We have to somehow find it in ourselves to manage the harsh realities that we have before us and try to make the best of the situation.

Red Cellar

I think that is all we can do at this point. 

We got a lot of very mixed attention to the event that happened a year ago. So many media outlets from corporate media to small personal blogs. To some it was a tragedy and to some it was a bunch of stupid ravers that got what was coming to them. Although I can spend time just feeling absolutely SICK about that I want to transmute that energy and push it further into the mainstream attention and show them we aren’t just a bunch of stupid raver kids. We are doing something unique and special and we have the ability to transform culture. Such as Wax Trax! ...Some of the artists on there looked like a bunch of rag tag junkie criminals and you wouldn't think they would create a whole subculture and make an impact world wide. If you did, you probably would have been laughed at. But now you have Ministry, My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult, KMFDM all these bands which have defied all mainstream logic and have gotten to tour world wide and ultimately transformed peoples’ lives. I think that the culture that we have here in Oakland has the ability to achieve similar things. I’m going to try my best to make that a reality and I invite anyone to join me on this potentially crazy ride. Make some thing real and impacting happen,together, and see where it takes us. 

You've got the drive and the spirit. So this is your first self promoted show as Red Cellar. Are you still doing Regretamine?

Yes, I have a pattern of splintering projects. Regretamine started off as an outlet for underground hard acid techno, ultimately dance music. Something I had never tried to do. But after moving to Oakland and going to Katabatik parties I realized how much of an impact electronic music can have and of course putting you down dark spin on it to reflect the very strange times we live in- yes, even techno can be social commentary!

There’s definitely a place for it!

Red Cellar happened was a collaboration with Micah. So then I had two outsider “dance” music projects going- of course the term “dance” music is used very loosely here hahah! Give the noise a damn beat basically! So I got inspired to do electronic music songwriting with more tradtional song structures. At this point I’m working on a full length album for Regretamine, which is me doing synth and keyboard and vocals. That’s being cooked up in my Regretamine lab! 12-13 tracks in progress but I'm going to keep it a secret until I can unleash it. I also have the noise outlet Neural Eunuch in the Esomorphic catalog. That’s a much looser project with the intention of having revolving artists- whoever wants to come in and make some noise. I have hours and hours of music to sift through. I probably have enough for four or five EP’s right now but of course I have other things that are more pressing with deadlines.

How Does Red Cellar compare to Regretamine? 

Red Cellar's mutant vibe is undoubtedly the mark of Micah’s work. It’s less improvised than it used to be with the two of us jamming out, but my approach is to collect an arsenal of sound to appease whatever spirits I happen to conjure during the live performance ritual. The circle will be cast beyond the cellar door and I invite you all for these incantations and ecstatic dances that follow.......

The Original Red Cellar Line up- Devyn Saturnus and Micah Danemeyer

Transport yourself over to Machina this Friday 6/16 !!!!
The Night Light at 311 Broadway St. in Oakland

Dj Sailor Saturn will be spinning in between sets too!

Visuals by Sinest

Group Rhoda// Cost/Worth// Terror Apart// Ssleeping DesiresS--3/14 at the Elbo Room

Written by John Graham

This week brings a three-city showcase of sonic oddities to the Elbo Room on Tuesday, March 14, with two Bay Area bands bookending a pair of Portland acts. Representing SF (though originally from PDX) is Ssleeping DesiresS, the extra sibiliance in whose name gives a clue to the serpentine nature of their post-punk songwriting, with Gabriel Ramos' baritone moans slithering between retro drum machine beats, gothy guitars, and synthesizers that mix equal parts Soft Kill and Soft Moon with a dollop of Drab Majesty. Terror Apart is the solo act of Portland's Anna Leja, whose mesmerizing minimal synth treatments are punctuated by sharp percussive thumps and ghostly vocals. Cost/Worth — a collaboration of Portland projects Cost and Tetrad Veil — plumb the night's deepest abysses with their explorations of cavernous dirges, ominous drones, and dark ambient/industrial noise; if you've got a murderous itch, this should satisfy your cravings for Lustmord. And finally there's Group Rhoda (a.k.a. Oakland's Mara Barenbaum), who lightens up the proceedings with electronics that are tropical and trippy — albeit more bouncy than brooding — with Barenbaum's vocals giving the whole affair the heady feel of Chris & Cosey's Techno Primitiv entrancements.

https://ssleepingdesiress.bandcamp.com

https://terrorapart.bandcamp.com

https://soundcloud.com/cost-worth

https://soundcloud.com/group_rhoda

V.E.X// Night Work// Stacian// The Creatrix upcoming SF show!

For those living in S.F. who cringe at the thought of trying to make the last BART at midnight, here is a night when Oakland comes to you. On Tuesday, February 21, the Elbo Room features an "evening of avant-garde industrial, space synth, and minimalistic cold wave" among other "delights" featuring V.E.X., Night Work, Stacian, and The Creatrix, with DJ sets by Nihar Bhatt (Left Hand Path/Surface Tension) and Demian Glas (Milwaukee).

V.E.X is a meritage blend of no-wave, queercore, and slime punk (you may have heard of their previous, more rock-focused band Moira Scar). Roxy Monoxide and LuLu GammaRay play dual synths, both do vocals, and they sometimes even add sax for an improv jazz element. They came out with two albums last year, Codex Hex ( Cool World/ Fantasy 1 Records)  and Insectsex (the latter on Oakland's own Ratskin Records), and are currently working on new material. Lyrically focused on pro-community, anti-fascist, and anti-racist messages, they take another step in removing any ego-driven barriers by performing in bizarre and bejeweled masks made by LuLu. V.E.X. will steal your little mutant heart. 

Night Work is an experimental industrial pair formed by Henry Larsen (vocals) and Jamile Jackson (drum machine/noise). In their live show, they might make you feel uncomfortable at times, but that's the point. Slamming drum machine work, jarring beats, and vocals that blend screaming and spoken monologues create a performance that is captivating and unnerving — think of splicing Swans' Filth with a Boyd Rice album. "Night Work is a reaction to the evils of our society," explains Henry Larsen. "It is a survival mechanism for our spirit amongst the cancer of capitalism." You won't want to look away. 

With two analog keyboards, a sequencer, and a drum machine, Milwaukee-born solo act Stacian fuses minimal/cold wave sounds with darkwave female vocals spiked with nostalgic moments of '90s techno. Inspired by Kraftwerk and Doris Norton, what you get is moody, haunting club bangers to sway and dance to. Also make sure to check out her most recent album, the ambient collection Drones for Everyday Use. Swoon!

More approachable in delivery, The Creatrix is all electronic melodies and cosmic-wave/techno meditations, sonically plush yet cool in tone, and erring on the side of hypnotically upbeat grooves. No vocals here, but who needs that when you're going down the rabbit hole of rave cave soundscapes? "Breach in the Hulll" is a fine example of this mind/body journey. 

Facebook event: https://www.facebook.com/events/244398036010417

V.E.X.: https://xanaxax.bandcamp.com

Night Work: https://soundcloud.com/nightwork_inc 

Stacian: https://stacian.bandcamp.com

The Creatrix: https://soundcloud.com/fanciullagentile

The Star that is just out of Range: an Interview with Edward Ka-Spel of The Legendary Pink Dots

         You are in a club — in an altered state of consciousness. Suddenly, a recognizable dance single penetrates the blur and haze. Colors vibrate as vintage synthesizers pulse. Overtaken by movement, for seven minutes you are lost. The song is from 1989 — a subversive cry against Thatcher’s England — and while you’re listening to “Blacklist,” you may not necessarily know that that is The Legendary Pink Dots, depending on which of their many albums you have been introduced to. 

      Their name is derived from the pink dots on one of the band’s keyboards and their stylistic range is beyond broad. Starting out in 1980, their albums experiment with everything from demented English acoustic guitar storytelling and gothy neo-psychedelia to abrasive industrial montages and avant-garde museum-core, with their early output tinged in post-punk essence. Sometimes this variance in genre can happen all on one album. The latest addition to their 40-record-plus discography, The Pages of Aquarius, was released earlier this year on Metropolis Records and induces more hypnotic and bizarre states of consciousness. 

    As you can see, the muse of singer, chief lyric writer, and keyboardist Edward Ka-Spel is never exhausted. In addition to LPD, he recently completed an album with Amanda Palmer, and in the past he has also collaborated with cEvin Key from Skinny Puppy (for their mid-’90s side project The Tear Garden) and many others. 

Edward Ka-Spel at the LPD show 10/15/16 at Thee Parkside (SF). Photo courtesy Todd Billeci

We interviewed Edward as he traveled through an unknown California desert during the western portion of the Legendary Pink Dots’ U.S. tour. 

So you’re touring for your new album. What’s going on with that and how did The Pages of Aquarius come about?

The album we just put out, The Pages of Aquarius, actually began about two years ago, when we started working on it. It was a whole process. That’s actually how long it took for us to finally decide earlier this year that it is finally there. Some songs are re-recorded. This is not one of those [projects] where we were extremely perfectionist about it dotting all the i’s and making sure it’s totally right. What do we get right after 35 years???! [Laughs.] But the theme is change, transformation. It’s starting in one place, a very earthly place, someone looking in the mirror and not liking what he sees and in the end basically ascending to nirvana. It’s very loosely combined but makes sense as a whole.

                                               "Mirror Mirror" from The Pages of Aquarius 

I understand the perfectionism side to creating your projects, but has this method (of not dotting all the i’s) been a new route for you?

I can’t hardly explain why it felt so important to us to go this way. I think we were all pretty excited about the advance in technology, the palette of sound that we can have access to. We can access difference shades that we never had at our disposal. Its kind of like going in to an ice cream shop and you want to taste it all. That’s basically what it felt like. We felt like we wanted to give it all because we felt like we never had such a choice. What is important to me, as the Pink Dots evolves, since we have been around for as long as we have, we never could stand to put out something that was merely “O.K.” — it would have to go a step further than the one before and of course the one before that would be our ultimate goal. You're always aiming higher. You always have to be that star that is just out of range. 

I heard that you did move from the U.K. because of all the political ugliness. I heard you live in Holland now? Society does look pretty ugly right now. 

Yes! It does look ugly. No, I moved back to the U.K. in 2011. I’m sad to say that the U.K. is in an uglier state than the U.S. right now. At least the monster that you have in the U.S. has to go at some point, but the monster that we have here we’re stuck with! It’s a very xenophobic, very harsh society and it’s promoted by the government. They’re borderline Nazis. [This] world is changing drastically, on an incredible level at an incredible rate. If you look at the big picture, it’s not in a good way, either. But I’m also an optimist at heart, though. I believe the world is still beautiful and it will always be beautiful — at least until I depart the planet, which hopefully won’t be too soon. 

OK, so you're back in the U.K. for now. However, you have been touring extensively forever. Do you ever get a break from that?

To be honest, it has slowed down in the recent years. For example, last year we only did a handful of European shows. Not so much, maybe twenty or something. It’s a choice. We wanted to step back and do some actual recording. There’s a lot of projects going on.

You have created a vast library of sounds with LPD: psych-rock, acoustic, minimal electronic, darkwave dance. Is this all based on your moods? Feelings of the day? Year?

Well, that’s the Pink Dot world. It is all of those things you just mentioned. and it’s a very tasty cocktail that just might blow your mind. I think it’s about presenting all the shades and all the moods you might have. It’s about looking deep into yourself to see just how much there is there. It’s not so much the mind as it is the soul. There’s a lot of humor in there, a lot of sadness in there, and a lot of joy. I suppose it’s all nuances, all shades and all the questions. It’s always about questioning. It’s always about exploring in one’s self. 

More Edward at the LPD show 10/15/16 at Thee Parkside (SF). Photo courtesy Todd Billeci

You cater to the dimensions of the spirit. That’s probably why you’re so prolific — because you have that range of emotion.

For instance, this set that we’re playing right now is probably the most confrontational set we have ever played. It’s quite extreme. Basically we start off with getting people in a nice mood and then we [chuckles] go off in a very interesting direction. But we have been getting good reactions! It seems to have been getting people talking. 

How is the U.S. portion of the tour going for you?

I would say it’s been the best part of the tour of the year, really. More people are showing up, they're enjoying it, they're taking it well. A lot of good feedback. The plan for the rest of the tour is to finish up the U.S. and then I’m going back to the U.K. and the rest of the guys are going back to Holland. I’ll take a rest for a little while. I still need to have time with my wife and my little girl. We have a few European Dots shows, then doing a few shows with Amanda Palmer. We will probably play in San Francisco for that show next year. It’s probably the most exciting place for us to play on the whole American tour besides Portland!

For more info on The Legendary Pink Dots you can go here to their official website for the latest updates. Here's their Facebook page too!

Photo Courtesy Todd Billeci LPD 10/15/16 at Thee Parkside

A big thanks to Todd Billeci of Noise Art for his revisions and photo contributions as well as John Graham for his editing skills. 

The River runs Deep: An interview with Michael Gira

Swans plays at the Regency Ballroom in SF on 9/3/2016

 
Swans are looking to see where the river takes them. This year’s LP release, The Glowing Man, was the third and final epoch of an ever-evolving, coincidental trilogy summoning cathartic revelations: visions of illuminated brutalities felt from enigmatic vibrations; elevations in instrumentation between worlds above, and worlds below. It's sonically pummeling and soothing, like bitter medicine. This manifestation of Swans—at the moment Norman Westberg, Kristof Hahn, Phil Puleo, Christopher Pravdica, Thor Harris and Michael Gira—invokes images of the languid finger of man trapped in his corporeal self, lifting up and over to a god eager for connection.

Swans’ main conduit, M. Gira, has written: "I chose the five people with whom to work that I believe would most ably provide a sense of surprise, and even uncertainty, while simultaneously embodying the strength and confidence to ride the river of intention that flows from the heart of the sound wherever it would lead us—and what's the intention? LOVE." [1] Where does this river flow? Gira doesn't know where it will go, and isn't worried about it, and that's part of the point. On a Friday morning, we rang him up and spoke to him over Earl Gray tea. We were hoping he was wearing his cowboy hat, but we didn't ask.

SD: You just finished the East coast and South American portions of your tour. How were those tours different for you?

MG: Well, typically, after we start touring— after not having toured for awhile, I guess for a year (maybe under a year)— it’s very tentative, at first. It seems to go over okay. It’s just for the first couple of weeks—it’s just panic—and trying to find the way into the thing, and how to make it breathe and live. So, the first couple of weeks of the U.S. tour were like that, and gradually it kind of reached its strength. Then, we went to South America and we played, and we were in fairly good form, and the audiences were spectacular. They went wild. The response was really ideal.They received the music in an unfiltered and uncynical way. It was a true experience.

SD: Maybe there are more inhibitions in U.S. Audiences?

MG: In the U.S. and Europe they are more saturated with the media, I think. Probably. The whole thing about the internet, and everything, is about ersatz experience. Fake, unreal. It’s like, “second hand.” I’ve been obsessed with that subject. I was in art school in about 1978 and noticed the bane of modern existence is media. I’m sucked into it just like everyone else. It’s just trying to find out what is actually real, and what has been sort of implanted in your mind

SD: It’s almost comparable to Plato’s Allegory of the Cave: believing the shadows, or not.

MG: Oh yeah, that’s a whole other philosophical question. In Zen Buddhism, you look at your mind as if it’s this screen, as opposed to the actual core of your consciousness, or your essential being — the mind being the shadows. It’s kind of an interesting schism as to how you view your own existence.

SD: You mention buddhism; it almost reflects in your music: you are sort of in-between on this yin and yang—between divinity and this sack of meat that we humans are encased in.

MG: Hahaha! Thats kind of a high falutin’ statement!

SD: So how did you round up your current collection of artists you're working with now? How did you get this band together?

MG: When I decided to reconvene Swans, I wrote a long list of people whom thought I could work with, and crossed off many, for no other reason than maybe the gestalt wouldn't be correct, and ended up with a list of the five other gentlemen besides myself. We went into the studio without having rehearsed at all. I had a bunch of songs, and we started playing in the studio for 12 hours for each song. Gradually they transformed into something Swans-like in many cases, and at the end of the day, we would record. That’s how we got the basic performances for those songs. I view that first record, To be Kind, as a transitional record from what I was doing with Angels of Light. That’s how I ended up with these guys—felicitous that it worked out at all. I’ve worked with all of them in the past at some point before in some capacity, but as a group; it did not exist before.

SD: Were you thinking at the time that there was some sort of "current" taking you in this direction? What was that experience like?

MG: At first it was just sort of the anxiety–ridden environment of the studio. There is always the “time is money” thing, and you got to get things done. Once we started touring, we played songs that were pretty much finished, and some old songs. We were playing that for about six months or so. It just seemed false, and then we started exploding things, tearing them apart, and tried to make things happen in the moment. That is when this group sort of “came into being”—when we realized we were kind of one body that moved with the sound as a whole—and we didn't have to constrict ourselves to specific scriptures. It’s kind of difficult to describe how it works. That’s when I realized this was a really great group, as opposed to six musicians trying to play or recite songs.

SD: You've created this wall of sound and vibration that is incomparable to anyone else. The Glowing Man seems to be garnering these feelings of catharsis—an unnerving feeling—yet hypnotic. When I first listened, it reminded me of when I was swimming in the ocean, and I was taken under by a pretty strong undertow. I was starting to panic underwater, and I was thrashing and fighting with this force. But then, all of a sudden, this total calmness and peace came over me, and I thought: “well, if I’m going to die here and now, this will be just fine.” Have you noticed other listeners almost resisting at first, only to completely succumb, and be released into some sort of heightened state?

MG: That should be in a movie! That’s how we feel, too, actually, when we perform. That’s great. When the music works best, it becomes an act of letting go, rather than control. That state of mind you talk about is actually the ideal state of mind to employ in your daily life. But, it’s a tougher course. Unless you’re a spiritual master, it’s impossible to do. I think that awareness of the proximity—the gnawing proximity of death—is really a very healthy thing. It puts things in a very urgent perspective.

SD: Has that been a theme in your music over the years?

MG: No, not really. There are many subjects I’ve touched upon over the years. I’m just talking about death in a personal way. If you keep in mind I—or we, or any of us—could have a heart attack right now, and could be brain dead for life. It actually happened to a friend of mine. He’s not brain dead, but his mind has been completely altered. I was just talking to him the day before it happened, and now he is in an institution for the rest of his life.

SD: The turn of events that can happen...

MG: Yes things just go [snaps fingers] like that so if you keep that in mind it keeps things in focus a little better.

SD: Living life more authentically, more presently. Speaking about that, how do you prepare for these shows? You're channeling such immense energy. What is going through your mind?

MG: Well, I'm certainly not reading the Kabbalah before! No, but really, it’s just a routine. You wake up in the tour bus, you do whatever, you try to find some coffee, maybe find a place to shower, then you load in the gear, sound check, then you hang out and twitch for a couple of hours, and then you walk on stage and you play the show, and you pack out the gear, and you collapse, and you do it all over again. You just get into this flow of it. The moment is when you are on stage, and it’s a kind of crucible, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t, but you just put everything you have into it.

SD: I'm wondering, for you, if there is anxiety building before, or is it calm before the storm?

MG: No, I don't ever feel calm. I don't ever try to think about it. I just do it.

SD: You created the album art for The Glowing Man. To me it has this sort of Rune-like symbolism to it.

MG: I've had this notion of using characters from other languages as icons on each panel on the LP and digi-pack CD version, and each character from each language would be on each panel. It was going to be “glowing man” or "world" in Japanese, Sanskrit, Hebrew, a few other things, and I just started to look at it and saw how "New–Agey" it looked. It looked like Orientalism or something, and I was appalled—and I said, “fuck it,” and threw it out. There was a deadline. So, instead, I just drew these characters myself. I realized later it sort of looks like The Disasters of War by Goya a little bit—body parts hanging from the trees. I also saw a parallel afterwards to Bruce Nauman, who’s a great conceptual artist and sculptor, who made this piece called From Hand to Mouth. It's a sculpture of a cast of a mouth, leading down to an arm. It’s just that—not the rest of his body. It’s kind of a wonderful piece. The cover art is up for interpretation.

The Glowing Man

SD: Swans are sometimes associated with the no-wave scene that was going on in the 1980's. Can you tell me a little more about what was going on for you then?

MG: We came at the tail-end of it. We jettisoned onto the tail-end of punk and no- wave. Oh, that’s only a minor historical point; the groups that were associated with no wave (if I can fucking remember them right now) are Mars, Teenage Jesus, The Contortions, Theoretical Girls. Oh god, they were pretty much all disbanded by the time both I and my friends from Sonic Youth got to New York or formed a band. We kind of came out of that period. Certainly both of us informed on the aesthetic of no wave. I didn't want to sound like someone else. I just was emboldened by the idea of not really playing your instrument in any conventional sense—I certainly couldn't at the time—but still forging something. I was more inclined towards very regimented rhythms, like most of the no -wave stuff would have been, with the exception of The Contortions. It was a gate that opened up just to move forward.

SD: You were reacting to the punk scene.

MG: Yeah, punk at that time, by 1980, was just a total cliché already. The attitude of punk, the emotion—violent emotion—was really attractive to me. But the idea of playing the chord progressions was just kind of stupid to me, so I never did that. Punk had a uniform and hardcore was even worse. It was like a bunch of high school jocks that found their soundtrack, you know? To me, it was not very interesting.

SD: Speaking about violence, per se, it's rumored back in the day that you would lock the people into the show, and you were also noted to turn the A/C off while playing live. What’s the story behind this?

MG: Well, we got tired of people fleeing [laughs]. People hadn't heard anything like it before, so it was definitely a sort of undeniable presence in the room. So, I guess, a couple times we locked the doors and we turned off the lights, so it was completely dark (laughing again). Listening to Swans is a commitment. That wasn't a habitual thing. The A/C just really has to do with my voice. When the A/C fans are blowing on the stage, your vocal chords instantly freeze up. Plus, I also feel like I'm in a bank or something. I was heartened to read that Aretha Franklin has the same requirement—she needed to turn off the A/C on stage. Not that I’m Aretha Franklin; although I wish I was. Yeah, I don't mind the heat. It can be very extreme at times, where you almost pass out, but it kind of adds to the whole feel of what’s going on I guess. It's not supposed to be nefarious or about some sadistic attitude towards the crowd. It’s simply just a by product of wanting my voice to work. I quite enjoy the sweating and the expulsion.

SD: I can’t wait to see the San Francisco show- for me, I would imagine it would be like this sweat lodge, being ritually cleansed, or exorcised. Maybe that's what you're doing to the audience.

MG: Yes, I feel like it is. But, it’s also happening to us, too. Yeah, maybe I think all those kinds of descriptions are somewhat accurate, but they're a bit romantic. It’s just a job really. HAHAHAH! [totally cracks up]. It’s like working in construction.

SD: I know in your musical career, you have had hard times. Have you felt like, "Fuck music! Fuck being an artist! I'm just going to be a fucking banker, or a real estate agent?"

MG: Ha! I guess I would have been a lawyer. No, I don’t even have a choice. This is who I am, this is what I do. This is what I have known. I'm an artist—and it's not with a capital “A”—it’s just what I have to do. It's through digital means, it's through writing. It’s through music that I feel like, “I have to do that,” or I feel like I’m not actually existing. Finding your calling is a primary realization. So, that’s just how it is.

SD: Especially the stuff you're putting out. It can't be avoided. It’s almost at this point borderline mysticism—spiritual in a sense.

MG: There’s a lot of spiritual aspirations involved, but again, I wouldn't want to overemphasize that. It’s rock music, for god’s sake! I would suggest people should experience it, and if they like it, “fine,” and if they don’t, “bye.”

SD:Take it or leave it; this is what I do?

MG: There’s always been that attitude. There was a time in the late 80s that the lure of success—so-called success—put us on a major label and I made some compromises which I thoroughly regret. But in my defense, I did it out of an intense fear of continuing to work construction for the rest of my life. It’s just a trade-off. I mean, there are great commercial bands (i.e., The Beatles, The Rolling Stones). I realized, after that experience—“that’s not me, I can’t do it”—and I went back to following imagination and intuition, and let the consequences fall where they may.~~

Swans plan to tour for at least another year and half with this crew. Where will they go after this? Gira speculates " this band as we know it now will not continue to exist. After this tour it will be a revolving cast of contributors. Some of them will be the same. Some of them will won't be. We can't have a set band. Not logistically, financially, emotionally. I will not go back to that mode. It is necessary to change it up".~ 

If you want to continue on this ride with Swans and their organic un-foldings follow them here. Also check out there show on 9/3 at the The Regency Ballroom with Baby Dee. Get sonically pummeled. Let it take you there.

Special thanks to Todd Billeci over at noiseart.org and Jeanne Billeci and Charlemagne Charmaine. For your selfless support, spirit, connections and passions.

Reference 1 -Young God Records