Catch the Man! Richard 23 on Front 242, Revolting Cocks and life in the Wax Trax!

If you are a fan of all that is Wax Trax! well, then this is a pretty exciting time for you. With Front 242 just finishing their Circling Overland tour,  the Revolting Cocks is also touring once again and stopping in SF (11/12/17) and doing a set the night before at the Cold Waves show in LA.  Minsitry just played the Warfield in SF and My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult played a Halloween show at the Brick and Mortar. On top of that, the Wax Trax! Documentary "Industrial Accident" is in it's pre-screening phase and is presenting that at the Montalban theatre in LA (hopefully a bay area screening soon).  So, getting a chance to talk to Richard 23, one of the front men in Front 242 and Revolting Cocks was very exciting. Their album "Front By Front" was Wax Trax! top selling album in their history. Richard 23 alongside Patrick Codenys, Jean- Luc De Meyere and Daniel Bressanutti was the original line up in Front 242 and it is one of THE quintessential industrial bands. Revolting Cocks consists of Paul barker (ex- Ministry bassist) Chris Connelly, and Luc Van Acker and is revered in the Wax Trax! cult that still has an obsessed following today. 

This interview was originally supposed to be done via email, but in a turn of events I ended up doing it in person the night of the SF Front 242 show. I showed up at the Mezzanine at 6pm and met him in the metal box/storage container-like smoking room, getting a little sick off smoking too many cigarettes in anticipation. They were doing sound checks for the drums. I sat there in the smoke, smiling to myself, anticipating about what we were going to talk about. Richard talks about the early inspirations in forming Front 242, the fun that is had in doing the live RevCo shows again, and inside info on the making of the Wax Trax! documentary. 

Richard 23 performing in Front 242

1981 was a very prolific year for many genres — punk, goth industrial. What was the scene like when you first started out in Belgium? You seemed to gain popularity quickly there, then it spread to the U.S. when you got signed to the famous Wax Trax! records in 1984.  How did you get started in making music? 

 First of all, in Belgium, punk was already gone. It was dead. Punk really started in 1976/1977. Starting out in NY and the U.K. with people like The Ramones, The Sex Pistols and all that. So, in 1981 there was still punk bands around, but at that time it became more New Wave with Bauhaus and Siouxsie. When we started there wasn't really a “scene” in Belgium. But there was an audience for sure. 

(sound check goes off with drum tests in the background)

It’s going to get really loud in here! (lights cigarette). In our little “corner” (Belgium) there wasn’t anything organized as a “scene”. Those were the early days. But like I was saying there was an audience and there was a lot of shows. Most of the bands from England, for example, their first show outside of the U.K was ALWAYS in Belgium: Joy Division, Cabaret Volataire, even U2. The fist time U2 played outside of the U.K. was in a small club in Brussels, made for 50 people. We (Belgium) were always really open because we didn't have strong cultural roots, it's like a made up country. We were very open to what was going on. We were in to the U.K music as much as the French and German stuff. So when we started out it was sort of a DIY story. No one was really able to understand what we were doing. The studios back then in Belgium were big and expensive. So we had to do it in our home made studio; small recorders, small mixers. We also realized it would be easier to do the covers, the graphics ourselves. So we found out quickly what we had to do. There was no tour managers. We could have gone and worked with U.K (industry) for this reason but we really didn't want to enter that “Anglo-Saxon” environment.  So, yes, it was all DIY on our end; from making the music, producing it and creating the graphics, the stage sets, the costumes, everything. 

What was the concept that was behind Front 242? I know in another interview you mentioned that you wanted to convey an “intensity”. 

Well, first off, none of us were musicians. None of us had any background in music. That’s why we started to use machines, synthesizers, computers to express ourselves musically and even beyond. If you are learning to play guitar you have to learn how to play your instrument. With a synthesizer all you have to do is sit down and take the time to fuck with it. We found it was more interesting this way, to sound differently than all those other bands at the time. Since we weren't musicians, we were influenced by many other things than music- architecture, movies, literature. Some of these bands that were up and coming, like Depeche Mode or The Human league (their music) was great but the live performances were kind of boring.  Just people standing around keyboards. You were missing that "something", like in punk music their live performances has an energy to it. It was just a lack of energy. So we wanted to bring that energy, a physical power. When we were creating music, it was like we were creating a soundtrack to a movie that didn't exist yet. 

That makes sense, thinking back to the "Headhunter" video produce by Anton Corbijn. Bringing the cinema to cinematic music.

The thing is that the medium we were lacking back then was the video aspect. We were doing everything else. Doing video back then was impossible to do that all by yourself. It’s not like now you just buy a camera and put it all together on your computer for real cheap. Anton Corbijn work was very interesting to us because he was first a photographer. So he had the “eye” before anything else. When we met him we told him was that we didn't want to do a video just for a single, we wanted to do a video to promote the album (Front by Front), like a trailer for a movie, featuring samples of different tracks from the album. Instead the label asked him to do a video for “Headhunter”. We told him he had complete freedom. We didn't give him any direction. Didnt’ explain any of the lyrics to him. It was cool because I think he got some of the sense of humor that isn't easy to catch the first time you listen to (Front 242)  It was cool to work  with someone and to give them total freedom and to see what they come up with. 

It’s cool since you mentioned some of your inspirations was architecture, and he definitely uses architectural lanscapes in that video. 

Yes! That was all shot in Brussels. 

I love that! So going back, in creating the initial sound for Front 242, sampling was a big part of it. Where did you get the idea for using this? Were you kind of the innovators of this sound?

I wouldn't say we were the beginning. When we first started sampling, sampling machines had just came out on the market. Before that people were using tapes, and we were too in the early days. So was Cabaret Volatire for example. They were using tapes as a sort of archaic sampling system. In the early 80’s when they systems came out we were lucky enough that Patrick won the lottery. He won some money and with that money we were able to afford the Emulator 2 which was verryyy expensive sampling machine. It was like the price of a car back then. 

What a turn of events! 

We were lucky that Patrick could actually buy this and we could start sampling. The idea for sampling was because we were influenced by architecture and movies but we were also influenced by TV. Belgium, in the early 80’s was the only country in Europe to have cable TV. So we had access to 15 or 20 channels from all over Europe. Which was not the case in France, England or Germany back then. So we were filled with images from French, German, British tv. So we had access to so many great sounds and images. So we are sampling TV news, movies and trying to make music with this was very exciting. We were trying to avoid using preset sounds from synthesizers. Except for people like Throbbing Gristle, we were trying to do something different. We would use the sound of someone hitting the table- make a sample of that and it became the “snare” in a song. 

Incredible! 

We were one of the first bands who started using samples in that way. 

It creates a musical collage.

Of course, we were also using synthesizers. The lyrics and vocals were important, but not as important as the sounds. We always considered the vocals as another instrument before the story telling. Sometimes  Jean would come up with interesting lyrics but like "Operating Tracks" is a good example of that. The lyrics mean nothing but it brings an imagery. 

More rhythm focused rather than poetically focused.

I always wondered about the lyrcis. They always sounded somewhat political to me.

Did these songs mean to have a political edge to them on your end?

No! We were using news samples and of course you get the political aspect that's going on in the world.  In the early 80’s it was still the Cold War and that was pretty interesting in terms of propaganda, speeches from political leaders. We were not making a statement, we were just using those words, speeches and sounds to put back in the music. A reflection of what was going on around us. 

A Historical reflection.

Yes, but no position taken. “Welcome to Paradise” we weren't saying we were Christians or Anti-Christians. We visited the states in 1984 and we turned on the TV and saw all those preachers on all these channels. That was something completely unknown in Europe! We were so excited! the way those preachers were talking about God and Jesus and just the drama. 

Front 242

Oh yes, high drama!

For us we were thinking “Whoa! What IS this?!”

It's still really weird!

Sure! But now everybody knows about it because the rest of the world now has access to it. Back then no one knew. So we recored it, we sampled it. and it’s in the track. It’s no statement. We used it because the way the expresses them selves, just the sentences they used alone were very strong. That doesn't mean we agree with what they say, we just found it very interesting.

Yes, you use their emotional intensity to heighten the musical intensity that you're creating.

Yeah! it was so weird just hearing, “Jesus is the son of God,” “No sex until marriage”  sort of stuff. We were fascinated by this aesthetic, not so much it’s substance. 

“Funkahdafi” same thing with that song. The intro is a speech and we felt the sme way. It was strong and we just wanted to fuck with it.  It was just all over the news back then.

You're being observational and with that you "assault" people sonically with it.

Going on this tour what songs do you look forward to performing now?

I really look forward to playing “Operating Tracks” which is the first song off the first album "Geography". It has big bass lines, cut up lyrics and some good smaples. of course “Head hunter” is always a fun one to play. It was the song that sort of made us sort of “famous” and helped us to go a little bit further than the others. 

Is there any other songs that you notice the audience really enjoy, that they get wild about?

It depends on where you play. In Spain they go mad with “Commando Mix”. I think a lot of DJ’s were playing that back in the day in the clubs. It has that kind of repetitive, techno aspect to it.

Oh yeah they love that over there!

"Im Rhythmus Bleiben" is very popoluar in Germany. It's German and it’s tough!

What was the initial idea with your outfits?

When we started, we wanted our stage presence to be different. We were really influenced by war movies, like Apocalypse Now. We sampled that movie a lot for "No Comment” album”.The military outfit look was a reflection of the Cold War/Vietnam era. We had to reflect that feeling.  They were also cheap to buy, easy to wear.  We wanted to have a very strong look.  It just fit with that feeling of the “No Comment” album so well. Of course the imagery changed slightly over the years, but that was the basis. 

 I saw ‘The Cocks” perform the "Big Sexy Land" album anniversary show at the DNA lounge. I know you thought you would never perform those songs again. But now you are on tour for the second time. What is that like? You guys have great chemistry. It looks like you all have such a good time performing it, which makes it so fun.

Yes, thats exactly what happened.  At first it we got back together to do the one show for the Cold Waves festival in Chicago (2016). But putting in all that energy just for one show was a bit stupid. I thought maybe we should set up a few more shows. So we set up six and we found out we could do a few in Europe so we did. It’s working so well, we get a long so well. It’s just such a pleasure and it’s just so fucking fun. We did SF last year, it was a success and I can’t believe were coming back. Like I said before, It’s just such a pleasure to play with those guys, away from what I’m doing with Front 242. I mean they're just great musicians. Paul Barker!!

I was going to ask you about him! He’s my favorite bassist!

Yes! Basically the idea is to get together and have fun! And people are asking for more..so....

The energy is so infectious!

I know back in the day Al Jourgenson was a part of RevCo back in the day. I know he’s also very problematic to work with. Do you still talk to him?

NOPE! 

HAHAHA! no surprise there!

None of us. None of us do. It’s even worse for Paul and Chris. Paul went through with suing him and stuff. 

Oh jeez too messy!

Oh yeah, it's messy. 

So! Wax Trax! documentray! What was it like being involved in some of the filming of that?

I saw it a few times before the pre-screening in Chicago. They did an amazing job. It’s just such a great story. Poeple will probably think it’s just going to be about industrial music, but it goes beyond that. But it's really about the guys who created the label.  It’s more about how they came up with the idea. How they moved from Denver to Chicago and the way they did it and all that stuff. It’s a human story before it being a music story. There’s lots of unseen footage and secrets revealed! 

I was pleasantly surprised to hear that "Front By Front" was Wax Trax! biggest selling album!

Yeah! plus the fact that “Head Hunter” was on there as well as “Welcome to Paradise”. Yep, it was their best selling album.

Wow, how amazing to be apart of something so iconic. 

The thing is we grew up in the States as the same time as Wax Trax! Our reputation started growing in the states as well as the label. That really made a connection between the label and the band. Later on we had to go because the limit of promotion and distribution was already reached for the label. We felt like we could grow a little bit more, in terms of exposure. Then they started to have money problems because they were very bad business men. They were both music lovers, great people but just not good with the business aspect.

Not meant to be financiers.

Yes, they would spand millions on a record that everyone knew wasn't going to sell, but just because they loved it. That’s the beauty of Wax Trax! but that’s the same reason why they went bankrupt. When that started to happen, we felt like we had to go. It wasn't our main label, it was our U.S. label as we had our European label. We were just connected by a distribution contract. At a certain point we just had to say, you know 'paymnets are coming late'. The distribution had met it's maximum. When the money problems started happening many bands on the label felt the same. When you can sell more and tour more with someone else, even if you have a very strong connection with the people (Wax Trax!) you try for awhile to stay and work it out. But eventually we  had to say “I’m sorry I have to keep up on my career”. 

Right, it’s not personal, you've just hit a ceiling.

It was heartbreaking, but we had to go. What happened after that is they went bankrupt. It’s all in the documentary, you’ll see. There’s no more record store. but they keep the legacy alive by doing “pop up” record sales, selling some of their original merchandise. 

Well, I guess we will find out more in the documentary!

It’s touching, it's a very cool story. Right now it’s in the pre-screening phase due to legal issues/ figuring out copyrights etc. Then once that’s sorted out it will tour film festivals for more exposure and then one day hopefully it will be on DVD. (Wax Trax!) really was an accident. That’s why it’s called “Industrial Accident”

It sounds like it will be full of rich history! 

Get tickets to see The Revolting Cocks here!!!!!

Here's a good song to listen to! 

OK, this is the POPTONE! An Interview with Kevin Haskins on his post-Bauhaus revival tour

Kevin Haskins needs no introduction. This year the legendary drummer for Bauhaus, Love and Rockets, and Tones on Tail has reunited with former bandmate Daniel Ash (vocals and guitar) and his daughter Diva (bass) to form the supergroup Poptone — referencing the Public Image Limited song "Poptones" — who will be performing a career retrospective of his bands' songs. 

For many this is a dream show, as Tones on Tail hasn't performed since the early '80s. I remember  listening to "Rain" and "Lions" while languidly laying in the folded-down backseat of my 1982 Dodge Aries woody station wagon, staring out into a 2 a.m. sky through the rear windows and writing in my composition notebook all the lush poetries that come from the nocturnal stirrings of youth. Let us not forget the afternoon bike rides while singing to the Love and Rockets album Express and glimmering on the inside with verve and a sense of mystique. 

I was curious to know more about this long-awaited resurgence from Kevin Haskins, as I always sort of viewed him as a wallflower in terms of his other more vociferous bandmates from the past. A quick and humble interview prior to their Regency Ballroom show in San Francisco is what I got from Mr. Haskins, and I couldn't be more pleased to experience this sonic rarity live. 

Poptone

I read in different interviews that Daniel Ash had a revelation in the early hours of morning about how he wanted to do live shows again after a decade in hiatus. What was your reaction when he wanted to do Tones on Tail again? To me, the Tones on Tail fans I know have been dying to see you tour once again and always wondered why it didn't happen sooner. 

Basically [Daniel Ash] wanted to play songs that he had written and sang on, so that really formed the set list. However, the majority of songs are TOT. I am very pleased that we are playing predominantly TOT songs. I know from talking to people I bump into at shows that they have been anticipating hearing Tones on Tail music live for a long time. I really love the music of TOT and it's very exciting and fulfilling playing those songs again. 

Tones on Tail was such an incandescent and dynamic project. It's still so evocative and fresh today. Why was it so short-lived and close-kept back when you first started? I know you only toured Europe and the U.S. once. 

It was down to musical differences for the most part.

The Poptone tour seems very well received so far! The footage I've seen looks like it's a really well-executed show and there has been so much excitement buzzing about it. How does it feel performing these Tones on Tail songs live after 3 decades? 

It's a great deal of fun and I'm happy that people who were either too young, or missed seeing our various bands, get to hear the songs live.

What is [original Tones on Tail bassist] Glenn Campling up to these days? Why was he not interested in resurrecting these songs? How did your daughter get involved in the project? I know she was in Blackblack.

I'm not sure what Glenn is up to. I think that he's working as a graphic artist. He designed our current Tones on Tail shirts, which I think look fantastic. We didn't approach Glenn or David J as it felt more appropriate to have a neutral bass player. I couldn't really picture either of them playing each other's basslines. Diva also brings a different dynamic to the table, which is fresh and exciting.

Tones on Tail: Glenn Campling, Daniel Ash, Kevin Haskins

It must be a truly unique experience playing these career-defining songs with your daughter. You must get along very well! What's the dynamic like?

It's quite surreal at times, glancing to my right and seeing her play on stage with me! We get along really well and share similar interests. She has a beautiful old soul and inspires me almost every day.

Returning to your older material, how does it feel in today's music scene? Does it feel like the "scene" used to be better years ago? Are there any newer acts you are into these days? 

Thankfully our music feels very fresh and relevant still. I'm really into our current support band called Pow!

Love and Rockets

What do you like to do in your off time? What does a day in the life of Kevin Haskins look like?

It depends what I'm doing career-wise. Poptone has completely absorbed all my time for the past three months. It's incredible the amount of work it takes, especially as we're very hands-on. 

Has there ever been a moment when you have been out in public and one of your songs from your previous projects comes on and it becomes a surreal moment for you? 

Not really, although [I was] surprised to hear our songs in Urban Outfitters.

You've been composing for film and video games for quite some time now, since 1998. Are you working on any projects right now?

I placed the composing on the back burner for the last two years to work on my coffee table book. It's coming out in October and is called Bauhaus Undead. It's a lot of photos, drawings, writings from the band, and assorted memorabilia. The content is exceptional and unique. I'm very excited that it's finally being published! It will be available on Cleopatra Records, Amazon, and selected book stores.

It seems like every major city in the U.S. is suffering from gentrification or a homogenization in terms of the arts and subculture. What is your take on the current scene/mood in L.A. these days? 

Not happy about the current urbanization of Hollywood.

What are your favorite songs to revisit on this tour?

Mainly the Tones on Tail material because it's so eclectic and unique.

I've read that Bauhaus and the like didn't set out to make necessarily "goth" music, but it just sort of placed in that category. How does it feel to be a part of so many people's romantic memories of "goth" music?

It doesn't really concern me as to which category we are placed in. I feel blessed to have had and to continue having such an incredible career. I feel truly blessed and grateful every day. 

A young Kevin and Daniel in the inimitable Bauhaus

Poptone is currently on tour! Make sure you get out there to see them! 

GO!

To Feel it One More Time: Disorder bids us Farewell

Named after a Joy Division song, Disorder was created seven years ago to showcase current basement-born darkwave/post-punk fusions, including bands like High Functioning Flesh, Black Marble, and Void Vision; even the font of the Disorder fliers, with 3-D effects and primary colors, has all the cool elements of some New Order album art. But now Nickie Tilsner, Disorder's founder and resident DJ, is leaving S.F. for more northern territories. 

To say goodbye to Disorder, there is a final show at the Night Light on Friday, February 10, featuring guest DJs Zlaya (Body Rapture/Wire Trap) and Hether Fortune (Wax Idols) with Nickie downstairs. Upstairs features live performances by All Your Sisters, Russell E.L. Butler, Zanna Nera, and Lyfers, with DJ sets from Zer0w0lf.

Before Nickie makes the move to Portland in June, I had to find out more about the history of Disorder and how it all came together. The Upper Haight was eerily empty that early afternoon. I found myself missing the bundles of crusty punks eating pizza and asking for change alongside their hankerchiefed hobo dogs. No one asked if I wanted to buy any weed, let alone did I smell any of its fragrance wafting along the air as I walked to the cafe. There were no wanderers, no listless beatniks, no overjoyous hippies, no studious anarchists. But discussing San Francisco's artistic erosion and dissipation of diversity is no new topic of rage and anger. At this point it's rather a burned-out topic, a disillusionment and a disappointment. So it comes as no surprise when S.F. loses another artistic inspiration in search of greener (and hopefully cheaper) pastures. 

Sitting in the window seat at a cafe on Haight and Masonic, and over the loud whir of a juicer, Nickie and I discussed the beginnings, the tribulations, the music, and our badass little community by the bay. 

So February 10th is the last one. What are your feelings on all this?

Oh god, it's so weird, I have so many. It's funny, the way this show came about. I wasn't going to do a farewell show. I had been done with Disorder for awhile. School got kind of crazy, so I just put it on hold. But after Ghost Ship I was reaching out to a lot of people and I ran into Jon Lady (Third Shadow/Lyfers) and he and I have always wanted to collaborate together. So after running into him a few weeks after the fire, we decided that we had to do something creative and positive. 'So let's put together a show,' we decided. There are so many different facets to what this show is about. It's about the end of 2016 and what a shit show that was. It's the weekend of Valentine's Day and I'm leaving, so we are celebrating our love of Oakland. It's heavy, but it's really positive, too. 

It's going to be a very energetically charged night. So many great players! So, for the record, when did you start Disorder?

It actually started in 2010, the last weekend of September, at Bar 355 in Oakland and I started it with no experience. I didn't know how to DJ, I didn't know how to promote. I didn't know how to book. I just knew I loved music and I had a good record collection and there were no goth nights in Oakland. So, I just did it, having never DJ'd before. 

That seems intimidating! Did you only play vinyl?

At first! I would go to Shutter all the time, which was kind of like my favorite night ever, even though I would have to leave before midnight because of BART. So I thought I would start something for all the goth kids in Oakland. So I brought out all my records and played them and It was super fun. I started out doing traditional goth and post-punk and darkwave, and then it kind of became a little more electronic over time. Doing Disorder at 355 didn't last long because I didn't know how to promote and then one night after the show all of my records were stolen. Some of these LP's were things that I have had since I was 13. Like I had a Pink Turns Blue album that was stolen… ahhhhhh [sigh of disdain]. It was pretty heartbreaking, so I stopped for awhile. 

Oh no! Did you cry?!

Oh … I BROKE shit. Then I cried. Then I broke shit. It was awful. So then I started working from the laptop, learned some tricks, moved to the city and realized I loved the Knockout (S.F. bar/venue) and I thought, 'I wonder if they'll let us do something there!' So I wrote them and they said yes and they gave me a monthly. This is kind of how I've done this thing from the start. 

Putting it out there and waiting to see what catches on.

Yes! Being a real-ass person! Being genuine! And people seem to respond really well to that. 

That seems like an ideal way of getting things done! So what were you spinning in the early days?

Pink Turns Blue, The Sound, Joy Division, New Order. Kind of the basic stuff that people like to dance to. Sisters of Mercy, Siouxsie. As I continued doing monthlies and gaining more musical knowledge about what was going on out here in S.F. and out there (East Bay), styles changed, skills changed, and that's where I am at now. 

It was kind of perfect timing then when bands like All Your Sisters started coming up. 

Yes, perfect timing. 

How long were you at the Knockout for? Did you do guest appearances at other venues?

I was at the Knockout for a few years. They had this clause that if I had a monthly night there, I would have to book bands, and I had never booked bands. So I started doing that there. I started reaching out to people that I thought were awesome and asked them to play and 9/10 they would normally say yes! Then I started nursing school and realized, 'Oh, I can't be up late at night any more. I've got to put a hold on this.' So I would do one here and there. I tried to do the Night Light monthly there, but with school I just realized I didn't even have the time for that. 

It sounds like it can be time consuming — the promoting, the energy that it takes to prepare.

Making sure that everything goes right and that everyone gets paid well and all of those things. So, yeah, had to put a hold to it and now it's just this big last thing to kind of feel it once again. I really want to before I go. The one thing I am going to miss about the Bay Area is the music scene.

So when you were at the Knockout you had to book bands. All Your Sisters, Drab Majesty, RedRedRed … who else did you have perform?

Oh, man, there were so many! High Functioning Flesh, Eleven Pond, Void Vision, Black Marble, Soft Kill. Everyone that I can think of from Oakland ... like, Pssngrs played a couple times, Wax Idols. Any band that I thought ripped, I called them up and asked if they would play and they would! 

Drab Majesty

You brought all the goods! Speaking of that, when you were doing Disorder at the Knockout, you put out a split with Eleven Pond and Drab Majesty. Was that the first record you put out? How did you go about doing that?

Oh, yes! That was the first and only record I put out! Basically, Disorder was named after a Joy Division song and I wanted to do something that Factory Records did: put on a few shows and then release singles of the bands that played. And then I released a single of bands that played and realized how much financial backing you need to run a label. It costs a lot of money to put out a record. But it was super fun and I am glad I did it! I just asked Eleven Pond and they said yes and I was like [pause for excitement] "OH … MY … GOD." Then Drab is on there and everything he does is like gold. So they both sent me tracks and I went to Pirates Press here in S.F. It's a very DIY punk place. Did all the visuals, designs, sent it out, they pressed it and I put it out. Still haven't made my money back, but it's great to have a piece of media in my hands that I helped produce. The weird thing is that I see them being sold on Discogs for like 60 Euros and I still have fucking boxes in my closet of them! It was only one pressing, but there's still some left!

You better get to sellin'!

I'm going to bring some to the show!

I couldn't tell you how many times I listened to that split right after you released it. It was raining that whole month of December and I was listening to it everyday and the person whom I was living with would come home and it would be on and they would be like, "Oh, man, you're listening to that again!?" It was a great time!

Oh, that's awesome! I also have these little mix tapes I used to make for Disorder. I might redo some of those and bring them out. I'm not sure yet.

You should for your last hurrah! Speaking of that, you're moving to Portland. Have you had a  chance to dabble with the music scene up there? It's more "metal" up there, right?

Yeah! It's (more focused on) metal and punk. My roots are in punk. I was a punk kid most of my life, so it feels good to go and hear them play punk music, like at Star Bar. There's a place called The Lovecraft bar and every night is a night there: goth, industrial, synth, etc. I have yet to set foot in there, but I hear it's really awesome. I'll be up there soon to check it out. I also have a friend who has a monthly spot that I could guest DJ at, so maybe once I'm up there I can try it out. So, there's a little bit of darkness up there, there's a little bit of a scene.

Maybe you can infiltrate it! The name for Disorder came from a Joy Division song. Tell me more about this, because I am sure there's a story!

Ha! Funny story. So it was my night at 355 and I was still really green and my library wasn't as deep as it is now, so Joy Division was everything to me at that time. So I was thinking, ‘I want to name it after a Joy Division song!.' I was going to call the night Shadow Play, but that was already taken, so I called up my best friend Amy and was like, ‘Look, I need to find a song to name this night so people know what this is about!' and she responded with "DUDE! Disorder!" and that was it. The name just rolled right off the tongue. Plus I study psychiatric pathology, so everything is a Disorder to me, so it works, it's me. It's perfect! Hahaha. Amy is to thank for that!

Were there any specific songs or albums you would always play on your nights? 

I would ALWAYS play Cold Cave, Linea Aspera (they're fucking great, plus all of their song lyrics use medical terminology!). My favorite thing to actually do is, towards the end of the night when I'm kind of tipsy and I'll play something totally off, like, I'll drop Gaga or something and people will get really excited.

Yeah! It's surprising and unexpected!

It's kind of my favorite thing to do!

You were saying that when you first started DJing you didn't have any experience, but you just wanted to open up the goth scene in the Oakland area. How was it first learning to DJ? Awkward? Scary? Did it come pretty natural? Were there any moments of "Oh, I fucked up"? 

Oh, yes, so many times have I fucked up! But I just had to not have an ego about it. 

So, what is a "fuck up" in this situation?

 A "fuck up" is when a record is on 45 and it's supposed to be on 33, or when you hit the stop button instead of the go button, or you had too many Old Fashioneds and you just don't start the next record. In the beginning — which I'm sure for those who have been going to Disorder from the beginning can confirm — there were many "moments." But the funny thing is that we all just laughed about it and kept dancing. That's the thing about Disorder that I really liked and that I am proud of: that it's not about ego, it's about the music. So, fuck it if I screw up. That's how you learn. Over time I've gotten better, learned programs, beat matching, and I think it's super fun, but it wasn't necessarily my goal. It just happened over time. I feel pretty comfortable now. I used to get sooooo nervous, but I'm not nervous anymore! 

You've worked alongside many rad people doing Disorder.  Any specific DJs that you worked with that you have a fondness for?

Favorites, of course, are Omar and Nako. They did Shutter back in the day. Omar is an encyclopedia with any genre. You throw something at him and he will knock it out of the park, he's amazing. Marco Misfailed is another favorite. He and I have collaborated on a lot of things and he's really great. Kevin, who does Dark Room, he's one of my favorite loves and has really been supportive of me and Disorder and has helped me out a lot and collaborated with me. I love Aja Vision, she's awesome, love her. Otherwise, other people who I look up to and haven't really worked with are Marco De La Vega (everything he does is awesome), Sky Madden, and that whole crew (they do really great shit, too). I never really got a chance to play with them, but I went to all their stuff as often as I could.

At this point how do you feel about leaving the city, since you've been here since you grew up here and you're so involved in the music scene here?

It's loaded, man. I grew up in the Mission District, with a goth mom in alternative underground warehouse spaces and venues. She was a bartender. Music and art everywhere. We are the only ones still living in the city out of that group from my childhood. I used to have this perception that you would have to pull this city from my cold dead hands. I'm going to stay forever, this is it. My roots. Then one day recently, when my boyfriend was looking for a place down here and it was just not really working out, the blinders sort of came off. I started looking around and began to realize why was I staying here? For what? I don't recognize my city anymore. At all. It's a struggle to stay here. For instance, I make really good money with the business I run, but I have nothing in savings and I don't want to live like that anymore. It's time and it's sad. There was this last little vestige of hope that I had, that S.F. would be a "thing" again and it's not. Oakland is still badass, I love it there, but in Portland I'll be closer to my partner and tuition for school is cheaper. My kid can have a yard and a dog and it's creative. It's not as diverse — and I will lament that loss for sure. Otherwise, fuck, you know, I'm alright with it. I'm definitely going to come back down and do some "one-offs" here and there. 

So what is your advice for someone who wants to start a night or wants to start to DJ?

First of all, the most important thing is to be a fucking human being. Honestly, don't fall into that trap of thinking that being a DJ makes you the coolest person on Earth and that you are actually "running" something. This is actually all about the artist that actually makes music. You are just playing THEIR music for other people to listen to it. So don't get some attitude about it. As long as you are sincere and you know what you want and you have a clear vision, just tell people what it is and they will be receptive to it. If you come up all being "puffed up" and "oh I'm the shit," it's not going to work very well for you. 

Oh, gross!

It is! Unfortunately, a lot of people fall into that trap. Luckily in S.F. it's not really like that. If you want to book bands, just get a hold of them, and if you really want to do well, make sure everyone gets paid well. I never paid myself for Disorder actually. I just gave it all to the artists. You have to have a passion for what you do and you have to practice. For vinyl, it's a skill and it takes time. Get a mixer and put it in your bedroom and practice before you play out. I wish I would have done that! But, really, just be a good person. Be honest. Let go of your ego. Life goes really well that way. 

The sound of the crowd.....

Any last thoughts for us?

This [interview] has made me think a lot about my life and music and what has transpired in the last seven years. I just really wanted to say thank you to those who came out and played and became my friends. The friendships that I've made through Disorder and this scene are really amazing. It wouldn't have been easy for me if I wasn't in the Bay Area. But all the chips were right in front of me and all I had to do was put them together. As long as there are artists in Oakland, keep it up! Keep being freaky weirdos and loving each other. 

If you want to keep up on Disorder you can do that follow on Facebook!