Catch the Man! Richard 23 on Front 242, Revolting Cocks and life in the Wax Trax!

If you are a fan of all that is Wax Trax! well, then this is a pretty exciting time for you. With Front 242 just finishing their Circling Overland tour,  the Revolting Cocks is also touring once again and stopping in SF (11/12/17) and doing a set the night before at the Cold Waves show in LA.  Minsitry just played the Warfield in SF and My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult played a Halloween show at the Brick and Mortar. On top of that, the Wax Trax! Documentary "Industrial Accident" is in it's pre-screening phase and is presenting that at the Montalban theatre in LA (hopefully a bay area screening soon).  So, getting a chance to talk to Richard 23, one of the front men in Front 242 and Revolting Cocks was very exciting. Their album "Front By Front" was Wax Trax! top selling album in their history. Richard 23 alongside Patrick Codenys, Jean- Luc De Meyere and Daniel Bressanutti was the original line up in Front 242 and it is one of THE quintessential industrial bands. Revolting Cocks consists of Paul barker (ex- Ministry bassist) Chris Connelly, and Luc Van Acker and is revered in the Wax Trax! cult that still has an obsessed following today. 

This interview was originally supposed to be done via email, but in a turn of events I ended up doing it in person the night of the SF Front 242 show. I showed up at the Mezzanine at 6pm and met him in the metal box/storage container-like smoking room, getting a little sick off smoking too many cigarettes in anticipation. They were doing sound checks for the drums. I sat there in the smoke, smiling to myself, anticipating about what we were going to talk about. Richard talks about the early inspirations in forming Front 242, the fun that is had in doing the live RevCo shows again, and inside info on the making of the Wax Trax! documentary. 

Richard 23 performing in Front 242

1981 was a very prolific year for many genres — punk, goth industrial. What was the scene like when you first started out in Belgium? You seemed to gain popularity quickly there, then it spread to the U.S. when you got signed to the famous Wax Trax! records in 1984.  How did you get started in making music? 

 First of all, in Belgium, punk was already gone. It was dead. Punk really started in 1976/1977. Starting out in NY and the U.K. with people like The Ramones, The Sex Pistols and all that. So, in 1981 there was still punk bands around, but at that time it became more New Wave with Bauhaus and Siouxsie. When we started there wasn't really a “scene” in Belgium. But there was an audience for sure. 

(sound check goes off with drum tests in the background)

It’s going to get really loud in here! (lights cigarette). In our little “corner” (Belgium) there wasn’t anything organized as a “scene”. Those were the early days. But like I was saying there was an audience and there was a lot of shows. Most of the bands from England, for example, their first show outside of the U.K was ALWAYS in Belgium: Joy Division, Cabaret Volataire, even U2. The fist time U2 played outside of the U.K. was in a small club in Brussels, made for 50 people. We (Belgium) were always really open because we didn't have strong cultural roots, it's like a made up country. We were very open to what was going on. We were in to the U.K music as much as the French and German stuff. So when we started out it was sort of a DIY story. No one was really able to understand what we were doing. The studios back then in Belgium were big and expensive. So we had to do it in our home made studio; small recorders, small mixers. We also realized it would be easier to do the covers, the graphics ourselves. So we found out quickly what we had to do. There was no tour managers. We could have gone and worked with U.K (industry) for this reason but we really didn't want to enter that “Anglo-Saxon” environment.  So, yes, it was all DIY on our end; from making the music, producing it and creating the graphics, the stage sets, the costumes, everything. 

What was the concept that was behind Front 242? I know in another interview you mentioned that you wanted to convey an “intensity”. 

Well, first off, none of us were musicians. None of us had any background in music. That’s why we started to use machines, synthesizers, computers to express ourselves musically and even beyond. If you are learning to play guitar you have to learn how to play your instrument. With a synthesizer all you have to do is sit down and take the time to fuck with it. We found it was more interesting this way, to sound differently than all those other bands at the time. Since we weren't musicians, we were influenced by many other things than music- architecture, movies, literature. Some of these bands that were up and coming, like Depeche Mode or The Human league (their music) was great but the live performances were kind of boring.  Just people standing around keyboards. You were missing that "something", like in punk music their live performances has an energy to it. It was just a lack of energy. So we wanted to bring that energy, a physical power. When we were creating music, it was like we were creating a soundtrack to a movie that didn't exist yet. 

That makes sense, thinking back to the "Headhunter" video produce by Anton Corbijn. Bringing the cinema to cinematic music.

The thing is that the medium we were lacking back then was the video aspect. We were doing everything else. Doing video back then was impossible to do that all by yourself. It’s not like now you just buy a camera and put it all together on your computer for real cheap. Anton Corbijn work was very interesting to us because he was first a photographer. So he had the “eye” before anything else. When we met him we told him was that we didn't want to do a video just for a single, we wanted to do a video to promote the album (Front by Front), like a trailer for a movie, featuring samples of different tracks from the album. Instead the label asked him to do a video for “Headhunter”. We told him he had complete freedom. We didn't give him any direction. Didnt’ explain any of the lyrics to him. It was cool because I think he got some of the sense of humor that isn't easy to catch the first time you listen to (Front 242)  It was cool to work  with someone and to give them total freedom and to see what they come up with. 

It’s cool since you mentioned some of your inspirations was architecture, and he definitely uses architectural lanscapes in that video. 

Yes! That was all shot in Brussels. 

I love that! So going back, in creating the initial sound for Front 242, sampling was a big part of it. Where did you get the idea for using this? Were you kind of the innovators of this sound?

I wouldn't say we were the beginning. When we first started sampling, sampling machines had just came out on the market. Before that people were using tapes, and we were too in the early days. So was Cabaret Volatire for example. They were using tapes as a sort of archaic sampling system. In the early 80’s when they systems came out we were lucky enough that Patrick won the lottery. He won some money and with that money we were able to afford the Emulator 2 which was verryyy expensive sampling machine. It was like the price of a car back then. 

What a turn of events! 

We were lucky that Patrick could actually buy this and we could start sampling. The idea for sampling was because we were influenced by architecture and movies but we were also influenced by TV. Belgium, in the early 80’s was the only country in Europe to have cable TV. So we had access to 15 or 20 channels from all over Europe. Which was not the case in France, England or Germany back then. So we were filled with images from French, German, British tv. So we had access to so many great sounds and images. So we are sampling TV news, movies and trying to make music with this was very exciting. We were trying to avoid using preset sounds from synthesizers. Except for people like Throbbing Gristle, we were trying to do something different. We would use the sound of someone hitting the table- make a sample of that and it became the “snare” in a song. 

Incredible! 

We were one of the first bands who started using samples in that way. 

It creates a musical collage.

Of course, we were also using synthesizers. The lyrics and vocals were important, but not as important as the sounds. We always considered the vocals as another instrument before the story telling. Sometimes  Jean would come up with interesting lyrics but like "Operating Tracks" is a good example of that. The lyrics mean nothing but it brings an imagery. 

More rhythm focused rather than poetically focused.

I always wondered about the lyrcis. They always sounded somewhat political to me.

Did these songs mean to have a political edge to them on your end?

No! We were using news samples and of course you get the political aspect that's going on in the world.  In the early 80’s it was still the Cold War and that was pretty interesting in terms of propaganda, speeches from political leaders. We were not making a statement, we were just using those words, speeches and sounds to put back in the music. A reflection of what was going on around us. 

A Historical reflection.

Yes, but no position taken. “Welcome to Paradise” we weren't saying we were Christians or Anti-Christians. We visited the states in 1984 and we turned on the TV and saw all those preachers on all these channels. That was something completely unknown in Europe! We were so excited! the way those preachers were talking about God and Jesus and just the drama. 

Front 242

Oh yes, high drama!

For us we were thinking “Whoa! What IS this?!”

It's still really weird!

Sure! But now everybody knows about it because the rest of the world now has access to it. Back then no one knew. So we recored it, we sampled it. and it’s in the track. It’s no statement. We used it because the way the expresses them selves, just the sentences they used alone were very strong. That doesn't mean we agree with what they say, we just found it very interesting.

Yes, you use their emotional intensity to heighten the musical intensity that you're creating.

Yeah! it was so weird just hearing, “Jesus is the son of God,” “No sex until marriage”  sort of stuff. We were fascinated by this aesthetic, not so much it’s substance. 

“Funkahdafi” same thing with that song. The intro is a speech and we felt the sme way. It was strong and we just wanted to fuck with it.  It was just all over the news back then.

You're being observational and with that you "assault" people sonically with it.

Going on this tour what songs do you look forward to performing now?

I really look forward to playing “Operating Tracks” which is the first song off the first album "Geography". It has big bass lines, cut up lyrics and some good smaples. of course “Head hunter” is always a fun one to play. It was the song that sort of made us sort of “famous” and helped us to go a little bit further than the others. 

Is there any other songs that you notice the audience really enjoy, that they get wild about?

It depends on where you play. In Spain they go mad with “Commando Mix”. I think a lot of DJ’s were playing that back in the day in the clubs. It has that kind of repetitive, techno aspect to it.

Oh yeah they love that over there!

"Im Rhythmus Bleiben" is very popoluar in Germany. It's German and it’s tough!

What was the initial idea with your outfits?

When we started, we wanted our stage presence to be different. We were really influenced by war movies, like Apocalypse Now. We sampled that movie a lot for "No Comment” album”.The military outfit look was a reflection of the Cold War/Vietnam era. We had to reflect that feeling.  They were also cheap to buy, easy to wear.  We wanted to have a very strong look.  It just fit with that feeling of the “No Comment” album so well. Of course the imagery changed slightly over the years, but that was the basis. 

 I saw ‘The Cocks” perform the "Big Sexy Land" album anniversary show at the DNA lounge. I know you thought you would never perform those songs again. But now you are on tour for the second time. What is that like? You guys have great chemistry. It looks like you all have such a good time performing it, which makes it so fun.

Yes, thats exactly what happened.  At first it we got back together to do the one show for the Cold Waves festival in Chicago (2016). But putting in all that energy just for one show was a bit stupid. I thought maybe we should set up a few more shows. So we set up six and we found out we could do a few in Europe so we did. It’s working so well, we get a long so well. It’s just such a pleasure and it’s just so fucking fun. We did SF last year, it was a success and I can’t believe were coming back. Like I said before, It’s just such a pleasure to play with those guys, away from what I’m doing with Front 242. I mean they're just great musicians. Paul Barker!!

I was going to ask you about him! He’s my favorite bassist!

Yes! Basically the idea is to get together and have fun! And people are asking for more..so....

The energy is so infectious!

I know back in the day Al Jourgenson was a part of RevCo back in the day. I know he’s also very problematic to work with. Do you still talk to him?

NOPE! 

HAHAHA! no surprise there!

None of us. None of us do. It’s even worse for Paul and Chris. Paul went through with suing him and stuff. 

Oh jeez too messy!

Oh yeah, it's messy. 

So! Wax Trax! documentray! What was it like being involved in some of the filming of that?

I saw it a few times before the pre-screening in Chicago. They did an amazing job. It’s just such a great story. Poeple will probably think it’s just going to be about industrial music, but it goes beyond that. But it's really about the guys who created the label.  It’s more about how they came up with the idea. How they moved from Denver to Chicago and the way they did it and all that stuff. It’s a human story before it being a music story. There’s lots of unseen footage and secrets revealed! 

I was pleasantly surprised to hear that "Front By Front" was Wax Trax! biggest selling album!

Yeah! plus the fact that “Head Hunter” was on there as well as “Welcome to Paradise”. Yep, it was their best selling album.

Wow, how amazing to be apart of something so iconic. 

The thing is we grew up in the States as the same time as Wax Trax! Our reputation started growing in the states as well as the label. That really made a connection between the label and the band. Later on we had to go because the limit of promotion and distribution was already reached for the label. We felt like we could grow a little bit more, in terms of exposure. Then they started to have money problems because they were very bad business men. They were both music lovers, great people but just not good with the business aspect.

Not meant to be financiers.

Yes, they would spand millions on a record that everyone knew wasn't going to sell, but just because they loved it. That’s the beauty of Wax Trax! but that’s the same reason why they went bankrupt. When that started to happen, we felt like we had to go. It wasn't our main label, it was our U.S. label as we had our European label. We were just connected by a distribution contract. At a certain point we just had to say, you know 'paymnets are coming late'. The distribution had met it's maximum. When the money problems started happening many bands on the label felt the same. When you can sell more and tour more with someone else, even if you have a very strong connection with the people (Wax Trax!) you try for awhile to stay and work it out. But eventually we  had to say “I’m sorry I have to keep up on my career”. 

Right, it’s not personal, you've just hit a ceiling.

It was heartbreaking, but we had to go. What happened after that is they went bankrupt. It’s all in the documentary, you’ll see. There’s no more record store. but they keep the legacy alive by doing “pop up” record sales, selling some of their original merchandise. 

Well, I guess we will find out more in the documentary!

It’s touching, it's a very cool story. Right now it’s in the pre-screening phase due to legal issues/ figuring out copyrights etc. Then once that’s sorted out it will tour film festivals for more exposure and then one day hopefully it will be on DVD. (Wax Trax!) really was an accident. That’s why it’s called “Industrial Accident”

It sounds like it will be full of rich history! 

Get tickets to see The Revolting Cocks here!!!!!

Here's a good song to listen to!